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Discussion: U.S. Election 2016: Primary Season
Member Since: 6/20/2012
Posts: 8,593
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Quote:
Originally posted by Giselle
It's not shutting you out. However, my experience actually being black, with black family and friends, trumps the fact that you knew some black people when you lived here years ago. Sorry. That's the reality. This is the problem many black people have had with the Sanders campaign & supporters. A lot of you talk about black issues as if you know better than black people. This isn't specifically directed at you, but it is an issue many black people have expressed. |
It's not just the "black people I knew" and lived with until as early as last year (not years ago) - it's the struggles of many that are voicing their opinions publicly, it's the education, imprisonment and employment statistics, it is the disturbing epidemic of gun violence, it's the income rates, it's all sorts of things.
I didn't even think of you being an African-American when I implied criticism of your responses to those questions (nor should I have, quite frankly) - to me you're another individual who has an opinion and I just happen to reject that particular way of viewing the African-American community. Bearing in mind, I disagree with some of your other responses to other questions and I didn't bother to address my concerns, because I don't view them to be dangerous and unfair.
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Banned
Member Since: 4/27/2012
Posts: 33,811
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Quote:
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it's the education, imprisonment and employment statistics, it is the disturbing epidemic of gun violence, it's the income rates, it's all sorts of things.
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We can have a discussion about these things. However, it's racially tone-deaf for you, a non-black person, who does not live in the United States, to tell a black person that they are incorrect about their feelings on the black community. No, you don't know better than me. Similarly to how I don't know better about Jordan than you. Statistics are valuable, but they only can tell you so much and you can't fully know about the state of black people without actually being black. It's nice that you like to engage and don't like to be shut out, however, race conversations are not times to protect feelings, coddle and beat around the bush.
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Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 12,079
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shame♥
Why y'all keep reporting people?  |
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It's getting way too out of hand and no one is doing anything about it. The last 3 times I entered this thread, someone was reported. It completely turns me away from adding to the conversation since even innocent stuff is getting reported. 
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Member Since: 11/15/2009
Posts: 16,903
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shame♥
Why y'all keep reporting people? |
?!?!?
Especially when there are four moderators who are in here on a regular basis 
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Member Since: 6/20/2012
Posts: 8,593
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Quote:
Originally posted by Giselle
We can have a discussion about these things. However, it's racially tone-deaf for you, a non-black person, who does not live in the United States, to tell a black person that they are incorrect about their feelings on the black community. No, you don't know better than me. Similarly to how I don't know better about Jordan than you. Statistics are valuable, but they only can tell you so much and you can't fully know about the state of black people without actually being black. It's nice that you like to engage and don't like to be shut out, however, race conversations are not times to protect feelings, coddle and beat around the bush.
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I don't view your feelings as "incorrect" - I just totally reject the way you view the African-American community, based on those answers, of course. That has nothing to do with my race or yours, and facts/statistics are indeed more than enough for me to have strong feelings about minorities without being one, about women's issues without being one, and about poverty without being a poor person. Your response to me was heavily based on my race and the fact that I'm not a given race, and I just don't agree with that.
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Member Since: 8/31/2013
Posts: 9,758
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Member Since: 8/7/2015
Posts: 3,830
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Quote:
Originally posted by Retro
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That's fine, if you do I guess. I didn't necessarily expect you to change your point of view, I wanted more to show mine.
The Austrian School hardly can be supported by facts because it's largely theoretical. The only thing which comes up to my mind is the economic success of Chile under Augusto Pinochet and general failure of socialist economies.
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Banned
Member Since: 4/27/2012
Posts: 33,811
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Quote:
Originally posted by heckinglovato
I don't view your feelings as "incorrect" - I just totally reject the way you view the African-American community, based on those answers, of course. That has nothing to do with my race or yours, and facts/statistics are indeed more than enough for me to have strong feelings about minorities without being one, about women's issues without being one, and about poverty without being a poor person. Your response to me was heavily based on my race and the fact that I'm not a given race, and I just don't agree with that.
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It has everything to do with race. If you cannot understand that your own race and experience plays a part in your answers on a racial discussion, then in all honestly, you probably shouldn't be discussing race. Sorry, but a foreigner's opinion on the black community in the US just doesn't hold very much weight to me. And most black people will agree with me. And the fact that you feel like your voice just has to be heard in a discussion on black affairs is again, an issue many black people have with NB-liberals. A lot of you don't know how to be good allies.
Again, we can discuss certain things. But that isn't what you attempted to do.You didn't attempt to have a productive conversation or pick my brain. You simply expressed disdain for my black american opinion on black american issues.
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Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 12,079
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Quote:
Originally posted by heckinglovato
I don't view your feelings as "incorrect" - I just totally reject the way you view the African-American community, based on those answers, of course. That has nothing to do with my race or yours, and facts/statistics are indeed more than enough for me to have strong feelings about minorities without being one, about women's issues without being one, and about poverty without being a poor person. Your response to me was heavily based on my race and the fact that I'm not a given race, and I just don't agree with that.
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The fact you're telling Giselle, someone who is pro-black, super knowledgeable about her own race, "woke" as some people would call it, and is actually black and has to live some of those experiences first hand, that she doesn't know what she's talking about is extremely insulting. Frankly, I think you're out of your league on this topic and saying some real off-base things.
You shouldn't make a habit of telling other races how to live their life based on what you think is wrong with their community and haven't known people that understand the issues/actually are apart of it, long enough to make these conclusions you're making, What you're more or less doing currently is what Piers Morgan does all the time on twitter.
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Member Since: 6/20/2012
Posts: 8,593
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Quote:
Originally posted by Giselle
It has everything to do with race. If you cannot understand that your own race and experience plays a part in your answers on a racial discussion, then in all honestly, you probably shouldn't be discussing race. Sorry, but a foreigner's opinion on the black community in the US just doesn't hold very much weight to me. And most black people will agree with me. And the fact that you feel like your voice just has to be heard in a discussion on black affairs is again, an issue many black people have with NB-liberals. A lot of you don't know how to be good allies.
Again, we can discuss certain things. But that isn't what you attempted to do.You didn't attempt to have a productive conversation or pick my brain. You simply expressed disdain for my black american opinion on black american issues. |
Your experience may have or may have not affected your answers to these questions and whether they did is besides the point. Your personal experience, what you've encountered and the instances you've come across are great things that you should be talking about and voicing constantly - I'm all for that. But I could potentially care about the African-American community more than you do (and not you personally, but I'm trying to say you could be non-X and still care about X more than some X's do) - Again, I wasn't even thinking about your race when I felt uncomfortable by those answers, and nor should I have. I value the African-American community very strongly and don't want people viewing them in that sense. Feel free to share your experiences including the ones you've encountered as well as why you answered those questions that way, especially how your race affected the answers, but please don't devalue my strong opinions and need to reject such views because I am not a given race.
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Banned
Member Since: 4/27/2012
Posts: 33,811
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Quote:
Originally posted by Flare
The fact you're telling Giselle, someone who is pro-black, super knowledgeable about her own race, "woke" as some people would call it, and is actually black and has to live some of those experiences first hand, that she doesn't know what she's talking about is extremely insulting. Frankly, I think you're out of your league on this topic and saying some real off-base things.
You shouldn't make a habit of telling other races how to live their life based on what you think is wrong with their community and haven't known people that understand the issues/actually are apart of it, long enough to make these conclusions you're making, What you're more or less doing currently is what Piers Morgan does all the time on twitter.
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I swear I just thought this.
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Member Since: 11/15/2009
Posts: 16,903
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Quote:
Originally posted by Flare
The fact you're telling Giselle, someone who is pro-black, super knowledgeable about her own race, "woke" as some people would call it, and is actually black and has to live some of those experiences first hand, that she doesn't know what she's talking about is extremely insulting. Frankly, I think you're out of your league on this topic and saying some real off-base things.
You shouldn't make a habit of telling other races how to live their life based on what you think is wrong with their community and haven't known people that understand the issues/actually are apart of it, long enough to make these conclusions you're making, What you're more or less doing currently is what Piers Morgan does all the time on twitter.
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!!!
There was some serious white-splaining going on in that post.
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Member Since: 6/20/2012
Posts: 8,593
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I never told her she doesn't know what she's talking about. That's just outright an incorrect statement.
I refuse to be called out for defending the African-American community and the struggles they encounter just because I'm not an African-American myself. I would never do that to someone defending gay rights, nor would a woman do it to me for being a feminist guy.
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Member Since: 8/7/2015
Posts: 23,857
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Quote:
Originally posted by Giselle
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I got Social Liberal as I expected.
Although some of the questions are bit.. eh.
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Banned
Member Since: 4/27/2012
Posts: 33,811
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Quote:
Originally posted by @michael
!!!
There was some serious white-splaining going on in that post.
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And he still doesn't get it despite several people trying to explain it to him
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Member Since: 8/3/2010
Posts: 71,871
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dessy Fenix
I got Social Liberal as I expected.
Although some of the questions are bit.. eh.
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Yeah some questions I sorta half agreed with and it was annoying to choose
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Banned
Member Since: 4/27/2012
Posts: 33,811
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Why do you think the black community needs you to "defend" them, especially from another black person 
Whether you realize it or not right now, you're displaying SEVERAL different things black people have a major issue with.
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Member Since: 11/15/2009
Posts: 16,903
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Quote:
Originally posted by RatedG²
Yeah some questions I sorta half agreed with and it was annoying to choose
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I hated how black and white every question was. I'm never that rigid in my thinking. I guess that's why they said choose the one you most identify with. They're trying to get deep down to how you feel when push comes to shove.
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Member Since: 6/20/2012
Posts: 8,593
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Quote:
Originally posted by Giselle
And he still doesn't get it despite several people trying to explain it to him |
Disagreeing with that sentiment doesn't mean I don't get it. It just means I disagree.
I wasn't the one who reported your post about my race nor do I plan on doing it if you bring it up again - I'm very welcoming to talking about the issues that face minorities, and I would love for you to talk about your experiences, without turning the argument into personal anecdotes about X being more qualified than Y to talk about issues related to X.
Like I said, I believe you can know and care about X more than some X's do even while being Y (not saying that about you personally), and that's why I view most Democratic leaders, even the white ones, as more capable of handling the obstacles than come with being an African-American more than Ben Carson can, for example.
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Member Since: 11/28/2011
Posts: 27,495
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Thank you HeckingLovato for puling him up on that messy quote. I am muy disappointed.
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