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Discussion: U.S. Election 2016: Primary Season
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 59,596
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lose My Breath
My entire life I have found more in common with Democratic and liberal ideas
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I was a little Republican during the Bush years  The religious indoctrination was real.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 59,596
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Most of my (extended) family supported Ted Cruz and now they are left without a religious leader. Poor them.
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Member Since: 8/7/2015
Posts: 3,830
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Oh and it's not like capitalism is a "new" thing to me. I turned right when I was around 16 and now I'm 20.
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Member Since: 6/20/2012
Posts: 8,593
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Never cared about politics until I was 16, and I've been progressive ever since. 
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Banned
Member Since: 4/27/2012
Posts: 33,811
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ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 3/22/2012
Posts: 53,769
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New Schoen poll; Clinton +2 at 44.
Quote:
Originally posted by Jan
I don't think income inequality is a bad thing. It baffles me why people think it is so, it's just fair. People whose work is worth less on the market earn less and people who are more qualified and better enterpreneuers earn more. This is fair to me.
Income redistribution is harmful and demotivates people from working. Why would I work if the state provided all I needed for myself to live? I don't oppose social security as means of preventing huge poverty. But they should be low enough for those people to be able solely to fulfill their needs.
A different issue is with those who are unable to work. They, in my opinion should have the right to benefits because it would simply be inhumane to deny them that.
The rest should work just like everybody else does.
I lean towards the Austrian School when it comes to economics. I'm aware that social democracy is based on Keynesism and me being opposed to Keynesism equals being opposed to social democracy.
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Income inequality and social stratification is an insane concept. It makes no logical political sense. To clarify, as I said, we're not just talking about the idea of earning what you make. You can't tell me that teachers, maintenance workers, janitors, sanitation workers and the like deserve only the money they're making when what they make is not enough for food and safe housing; nearly 50 million Americans live below the poverty line as it is traditionally defined, and about 51% of Americans make under $30,000 a year. To put that in perspective, an average American living wage (as in, living like a worthy human being) is actually probably closer to $40,000 or $45,000 in 2016. And then on the opposite end you have "entrepreneurs" making so much that, as Bernie loves to point out, one tenth of one percent of America is earning almost as much as the bottom 90% combined. That's not earning what you worked for, that's disgusting hoarding of wealth and prosperity on baseless capitalist notions that your workers' work is your work and their success is just your success. That's why men like Warren Buffett and Bill Gates donate so heavily to charity; they know the system is not working. People are working, they have real and difficult jobs; they aren't being payed what they have rightfully earned.
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Member Since: 6/20/2012
Posts: 8,593
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Quote:
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Generally affluent and highly educated, most Solid Liberals strongly support the social safety net and take very liberal positions on virtually all issues. Most say they always vote Democratic and are unflagging supporters of Barack Obama. Overall, Solid Liberals are very optimistic about the nation’s future and are the most likely to say that America’s success is linked to its ability to change, rather than its reliance on long-standing principles. On foreign policy, Solid Liberals overwhelmingly believe that good diplomacy – rather than military strength – is the best way to ensure peace.
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Member Since: 8/7/2015
Posts: 3,830
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Quote:
Originally posted by Retro
New Schoen poll; Clinton +2 at 44.
Income inequality and social stratification is an insane concept. It makes no logical political sense. To clarify, as I said, we're not just talking about the idea of earning what you make. You can't tell me that teachers, maintenance workers, janitors, sanitation workers and the like deserve only the money they're making when what they make is not enough for food and safe housing; nearly 50 million Americans live below the poverty line as it is traditionally defined, and about 51% of Americans make under $30,000 a year. To put that in perspective, an average American living wage (as in, living like a worthy human being) is actually probably closer to $40,000 or $45,000 in 2016. And then on the opposite end you have "entrepreneurs" making so much that, as Bernie loves to point out, one tenth of one percent of America is earning almost as much as the bottom 90% combined. That's not earning what you worked for, that's disgusting hoarding of wealth and prosperity on baseless capitalist notions that your workers' work is your work and their success is just your success. That's why men like Warren Buffett and Bill Gates donate so heavily to charity; they know the system is not working. People are working, they have real and difficult jobs; they aren't being payed what they have rightfully earned. |
That's sweet, but it's your opinion.
Socialism creates even more poverty as to cover social welfare, high taxes are introduced, which eventually lead to people stopping paying them and moving their businesses to foreign countries with lower taxes. That leads to continuously smaller tax revenue, increasing of foreign debt and increasing amount of people who depend on social welfare as they don't have an incentive to work.
And well, teachers are underpaid because they work in public schools that in general are worse in level and prestige than private schools. I'm sure the teachers in private schools receive adequate pays.
Bill Gates is fully entitled to his fortune due to his ingenuity. Without him and his private owning of the company there wouldn't be any Microsoft really. My country has made companies public properly and it turned out to be highly inefficient, uninnovative and wasteful of resources.
And Bill Gates doesn't pay money for charity because he thinks capitalism is so bad. He does it for you to think he does, in short for PR.
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Banned
Member Since: 4/27/2012
Posts: 33,811
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I don't believe in the hoarding of wealth mentality. I think CEOs and corporations do earn their wealth. How do you tell someone they've made too much money?  And what do you suggest they do with their money?
On the other hand, I do believe teachers and the like are paid too little (I've actually been thinking about this lately) and I think the NGO sector should have more of a role in US affairs (because honestly it's much more useful and tangible than the Government in a lot of areas).
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Member Since: 8/7/2015
Posts: 3,830
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Quote:
Originally posted by Giselle
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Business Conservative, that I am.
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Business Conservatives generally are traditional small-government Republicans. Overwhelming percentages think that government is almost always wasteful and it does too much better left to businesses and individuals. Business Conservatives differ from Steadfast Conservatives in their positive attitudes toward business and in their strong support for Wall Street in particular. Most think that immigrants strengthen the country and take a positive view of U.S. global involvement. As a group, they are less socially conservative than Steadfast Conservatives.
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Member Since: 3/5/2011
Posts: 15,589
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bloo
I used to be very pro-life in high school; now I'm very pro-choice.
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Its the opposite for me, lol. Used to be very pro-choice (up until about a year ago) but i had an experience w someone really close to me that made me shift to pro-life (w exceptions ofc)
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Member Since: 6/20/2012
Posts: 8,593
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It's not about them making too much money, good for them actually! It's about them not paying nearly enough in taxes for welfare and social programs, and that's usually the government's fault.
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ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 3/22/2012
Posts: 53,769
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jan
That's sweet, but it's your opinion.
Socialism creates even more poverty as to cover social welfare, high taxes are introduced, which eventually lead to people stopping paying them and moving their businesses to foreign countries with lower taxes. That leads to continuously smaller tax revenue, increasing of foreign debt and increasing amount of people who depend on social welfare as they don't have an incentive to work.
And well, teachers are underpaid because they work in public schools that in general are worse in level and prestige than private schools. I'm sure the teachers in private schools receive adequate pays.
Bill Gates is fully entitled to his fortune due to his ingenuity. Without him and his private owning of the company there wouldn't be any Microsoft really. My country has made companies public properly and it turned out to be highly inefficient, uninnovative and wasteful of resources.
And Bill Gates doesn't pay money for charity because he thinks capitalism is so bad. He does it for you to think he does, in short for PR.
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 No.
People do NOT just up and stop paying taxes when they are raised; historical evidence has shown high taxes to be good for the economy overall, and some of our best economic periods saw record tax rates. The theory that people are disincentivized to work has never actually held ground, as most people on welfare need it and have jobs.
The idea that public school teachers don't deserve adequate pay is just... incredible. These public school teachers are incredibly essential to the development of our workforce, the education of these entrepreneurs you feel are so gifted, and to the smooth operation of society.
Bill Gates may be a genius and he may deserve something, but he doesn't really deserve more wealth than anyone else in the world based on that fact alone. People helped him; other people helped build his business and his life. He realizes that, he's not just donating for PR.
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Banned
Member Since: 4/27/2012
Posts: 33,811
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I was pro-life until I started growing up and actually developing thoughts and stances on things.
Women's rights, are kinda like, my thing so it'd be silly for me to be pro-life. Especially considering how essential abortions are in the developing world (my other thing) and how many women here in the US have them for a variety of reasons.
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Member Since: 6/20/2012
Posts: 8,593
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I have ZERO respect for the pro-life stance. It bothers me on a very personal level.
That's why Senator Casey needs to be kicked out of his senate seat. Give it to a Democrat who DESERVES to be there.
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ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 3/22/2012
Posts: 53,769
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Quote:
Originally posted by Giselle
I don't believe in the hoarding of wealth mentality. I think CEOs and corporations do earn their wealth. How do you tell someone they've made too much money? And what do you suggest they do with their money? |
It's not about telling any individual they "make too much." It's about looking at aggregate statistics and recognizing that an incredibly small proportion of the population has more wealth than the rest and often pays a lower percentage in taxes. It's about adjusting the tax brackets accordingly with that information and closing tax loopholes, as well as taxing corporations fairly rather than at low rates. It's about having enough wealth cycled back into the public sector to give assistance to people who demonstrably need access to that wealth in order to live normal, healthy lives, thereby strengthening our economy, our workforce, our educational systems, our healthcare networks, and our infrastructure.
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Member Since: 8/7/2015
Posts: 3,830
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Quote:
Originally posted by Retro
No.
People do NOT just up and stop paying taxes when they are raised; historical evidence has shown high taxes to be good for the economy overall, and some of our best economic periods saw record tax rates. The theory that people are disincentivized to work has never actually held ground, as most people on welfare need it and have jobs.
The idea that public school teachers don't deserve adequate pay is just... incredible. These public school teachers are incredibly essential to the development of our workforce, the education of these entrepreneurs you feel are so gifted, and to the smooth operation of society.
Bill Gates may be a genius and he may deserve something, but he doesn't really deserve more wealth than anyone else in the world based on that fact alone. People helped him; other people helped build his business and his life. He realizes that, he's not just donating for PR.
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Bringing such proof makes literally no sense as half of it will be based on Keynesism and the other on the Austrian School. So there's no point in questioning either as it is logical, however one of them is coming from a wrong assumption.
Education is not a right, it's a good just like a fridge, car, a house, whatever else.
And the bolded statement is again, your personal opinion and so nothing really stems from it. I can say now "no, he deserves it" and we can spend hours here arguing about nothing.
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Member Since: 3/5/2011
Posts: 15,589
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Quote:
Originally posted by heckinglovato
I have ZERO respect for the pro-life stance. It bothers me on a very personal level.
That's why Senator Casey needs to be kicked out of his senate seat. Give it to a Democrat who DESERVES to be there.
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People like you are just  . Preach tolerance all day but foam at the mouth at any divergent opinion.
I'm a pro-life Dem, and you'll deal.
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Member Since: 6/17/2011
Posts: 6,613
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I was a huge Republican. Now I'm independent, but I'll probably vote Republican just because my major concerns like Government and defeating Terrorism, but things like legalizing weed I'm for, but it's really not a big one for me. I don't smoke, I just don't see the point in arresting people for smoking
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Member Since: 3/5/2011
Posts: 15,589
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Quote:
Originally posted by Benzene
My mom wasn't yet a citizen when I was in high school so she didn't really pay attention to politics.
I was one of those black people who thought I was better than other black people, and loved hearing praise from white people who would compliment me at the expense of other black people. I was also raised Catholic so I was pretty socially conservative.
Around 12th grade I started switching my views on social issues like gay marriage and abortion, mostly the product of some friends coming out and general discussions about sexual activity (the real turning point was when someone asked me if I got pregnant that day if I would forgo a year at college to have the child. That's when I knew I was a hypocrite  ).
As for the race thing, it's honestly hard for me to pinpoint when I shifted on that. It was definitely before I started college. I just realized at some point that to the average white person a negro is always going to be a negro and that I shouldn't waste time trying to please anyone.
For the record, my mom is now a citizen and is a registered Dem. She's a Republican at heart but has voted straight-ticket D in every election since 2008. |
A lot of Africans in the US lean Republican at first bc they're more often more successful out-the-gate than native born AAs and wonder "Why can't everyone make it like i did? Why are they complaining?"... and then eventually, after years and years they (most likely, their kids) hit the same ceiling that all POC hit.
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