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Poll: Fighter vs Behind These Hazel Eys: Better Pop/Rock Smash?
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View Poll Results: More iconic pop/rock ballad?
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Behind These Hazel Eyes
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96 |
53.04% |
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Fighter
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85 |
46.96% |
Member Since: 5/12/2012
Posts: 7,989
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Quote:
Originally posted by atrlster
Fighter is not a pop rock song in the same way that we call Kelly/Pink/Avril songs "pop rock".
It's way heavier and wasn't a HAC hit because it didn't fit the mold of how "pop-rock" was defined on radio.
People just call females trying to do rock music "pop-rock" as a general term, but it doesn't make it all the same type of music or music that HAC would play.
So seeing as Fighter wasn't a HAC hit, it's not surprising she's not going to get recurrent play there. And obviously her other singles didn't really fit HAC either.
Again, Beautiful's impact is insane too, so not sure what you're trying to get at.
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Are you trying to argue that Fighter is a pure rock song? 
Beautiful had impact... But, not on the level of Since U Been Gone. This isn't even up for discussion. 
You've avoided fulfilling my one request of you for the third time:
"Now, again, explain why Stripped was the bigger era."
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Member Since: 8/22/2010
Posts: 12,270
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Quote:
Originally posted by idkher
lmao xtina fans will do anything to make it sound like stripped was bigger than it actually was. that album had ONE big hit while breakaway had four, and we all know which sold more. the only way to truly measure success of pop songs at that time is the pop radio chart, where kelly had three #1's and two top 5's, and xtina had one #1 and two top 5's  |
Stripped definitely had 4 hits and a more moderate fifth hit. The inaccuracy 
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Member Since: 1/18/2012
Posts: 14,652
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Quote:
Originally posted by idkher
lmao xtina fans will do anything to make it sound like stripped was bigger than it actually was. that album had ONE big hit while breakaway had four, and we all know which sold more. the only way to truly measure success of pop songs at that time is the pop radio chart, where kelly had three #1's and two top 5's, and xtina had one #1 and two top 5's |
The 'Stripped' singles did better WW than the 'Breakaway' singles
Stripped also sold more.
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Member Since: 2/6/2012
Posts: 29,767
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Quote:
Originally posted by atrlster
Stripped definitely had 4 hits and a more moderate fifth hit. The inaccuracy |
Provide receipts.
You can't make excuses about Urban and AC radio when looking ONLY at the pop radio chart.
....and as per usually Kelly won that battle.
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Member Since: 2/6/2012
Posts: 29,767
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Quote:
Originally posted by T.C
The 'Stripped' singles did better WW than the 'Breakaway' singles
Stripped also sold more.
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Bald faced lie.
Maybe the singles did better internationally (not sure myself), but then why did Breakaway sell more WW? 
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Member Since: 5/12/2012
Posts: 7,989
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Quote:
Originally posted by T.C
The 'Stripped' singles did better WW than the 'Breakaway' singles
Stripped also sold more.
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Oh, really? Do you care to provide receipts of Stripped's sales exceeding 15 million?
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Member Since: 8/22/2010
Posts: 12,270
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Quote:
Originally posted by MissedTheTrain
It's not an obvious fact to a lot of people, which is why I'm asking for some receipts on how Urban music had advantage/higher AI, rhythmic was selective, etc.
And again, that does sound like an excuse saying "AC audiences are bigger album buyers" and you are not even showing me some receipts saying that's true. Even if it was, Beautiful and The Voice Within were both AC type songs so I don't see what your point is.
Saying "It had more impact" has no merit when there's absolutely nothing to back it up with, I've been asking throughout this thread for some reasons and you haven't given any.  Sure it had impact, nobody is denying that, but Breakaway was the bigger era according to the receipts. |
How long have you been following charts to not know this? I don't know what else to tell you but to look big at radio charts from 2003-2004 and you'll see how staggering urban airplay was in comparison to Pop radio. As for Rhythmic, again just look at charts from back then, and you'll see the big pop aren't crossing over.
Beautiful and The Voice Within were only two of the five singles that could fit on AC. Dirrty and Can't Hold Us Down obviously dont' fit that nor Fighter.
Meanwhile, all 5 of Kelly's singles fit in on AC and HAC right?
And I'm talking about overall impact here not just a strict comparison of numbers here. Again, are you really going to say Breakaway is a bigger era than every era that came before and after it just based on that album sales figure alone?
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Member Since: 8/22/2010
Posts: 12,270
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wafflinson
Provide receipts.
You can't make excuses about Urban and AC radio when looking ONLY at the pop radio chart.
....and as per usually Kelly won that battle.
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Did I say I was talking about only the Pop radio chart
Three of the songs went Top 10 on Pop Radio. The Voice Within peaked at #11. Dirrty definitely had a big enough impact to be seen as a hit even if radio doesn't display that. Think of how songs like We Can't Stop had similar impact but The Hot 100 would not display that if downloads didn't exist.
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Member Since: 2/6/2012
Posts: 29,767
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Quote:
Originally posted by atrlster
Did I say I was talking about only the Pop radio chart
Three of the songs went Top 10 on Pop Radio. The Voice Within peaked at #11. Dirrty definitely had a big enough impact to be seen as a hit even if radio doesn't display that. Think of how songs like We Can't Stop had similar impact but The Hot 100 would not display that if downloads didn't exist. |
The post you quoted WAS only talking about the pop chart sis.
The struggle for you to find some metric which says Stripped was bigger tho 
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Member Since: 1/18/2012
Posts: 14,652
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wafflinson
Bald faced lie.
Maybe the singles did better internationally (not sure myself), but then why did Breakaway sell more WW? |
It didn't, and it didn't sell 15 million, that's a Britney sized inflated mess 
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 30,225
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Quote:
Originally posted by atrlster
How long have you been following charts to not know this? I don't know what else to tell you but to look big at radio charts from 2003-2004 and you'll see how staggering urban airplay was in comparison to Pop radio. As for Rhythmic, again just look at charts from back then, and you'll see the big pop aren't crossing over.
Beautiful and The Voice Within were only two of the five singles that could fit on AC. Dirrty and Can't Hold Us Down obviously dont' fit that nor Fighter.
Meanwhile, all 5 of Kelly's singles fit in on AC and HAC right?
And I'm talking about overall impact here not just a strict comparison of numbers here. Again, are you really going to say Breakaway is a bigger era than every era that came before and after it just based on that album sales figure alone? |
I don't get why you're acting like I'm stupid, yet still not giving me some receipts? Yes, Urban music was a bit deal in 2003, 2004, and 2005. I don't get what you're trying to say. It was big during the Breakaway era too. If you really want to make a big deal about that, we can look at the Pop radio charts, where Kelly also wins.
Sure Kelly's singles could fit on HAC/AC, but that's beside the point and certainly not an excuse as to why Breakaway sold more. 
And once again, you are STILL not giving me any reasons to back up saying that Stripped had more impact than Breakaway. And no, I won't say Breakaway was a bigger era than every era that came before it or after it based on album figures alone. But, we are comparing Stripped and Breakaway here, and Breakaway beats it in singles success, album sales, album charting longevity, radio success, awards, etc. Saying "but Stripped has more impact" has no merit to it at all since you aren't giving any reasoning, you just keep saying it over and over.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 30,225
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Quote:
Originally posted by T.C
It didn't, and it didn't sell 15 million, that's a Britney sized inflated mess |
I posted receipts a few page back, according to an official source it did.
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Member Since: 2/6/2012
Posts: 29,767
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Quote:
Originally posted by T.C
It didn't, and it didn't sell 15 million, that's a Britney sized inflated mess |
It was directly from the label sis.....
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Member Since: 8/22/2010
Posts: 12,270
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bloo
Are you trying to argue that Fighter is a pure rock song?
Beautiful had impact... But, not on the level of Since U Been Gone. This isn't even up for discussion.
You've avoided fulfilling my one request of you for the third time:
"Now, again, explain why Stripped was the bigger era." |
Show me where I said Fighter is a pure rock song
You know Fighter is based on heavier rock and that sound is too hard for HAC. Too soft for Rock radio (and Christina being a woman already makes that an issue too) so it falls in between the gaps. Whereas Kelly's singles were more in the middle and fit into HAC.
And I disagree about Beautiful not having impact the way SUBG has had. At the time SUBG definitely had impact, but not as much, and I'm not seeing its long term effects today either as much as Beatiful.
And I've already addressed your last question twice to MissedTheTrain
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Member Since: 8/22/2010
Posts: 12,270
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wafflinson
The post you quoted WAS only talking about the pop chart sis.
The struggle for you to find some metric which says Stripped was bigger tho |
No, REREAD that post. They mentioned The Hot 100 and Pop Radio.
And there is no struggle
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Member Since: 1/18/2012
Posts: 14,652
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wafflinson
It was directly from the label sis.....
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So is Michaels 100 million album figure for Thriller, so is Britney supposibly selling 105 million albums. Labels inflate sales or turn them into shipment totals.
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Member Since: 2/6/2012
Posts: 29,767
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Quote:
Originally posted by T.C
So is Michaels 100 million album figure for Thriller, so is Britney supposibly selling 105 million albums. Labels inflate sales or turn them into shipment totals.
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They are both on the same label sis.
If Kelly's numbers are inflated it is just as likely that Xtina's are.
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Member Since: 5/12/2012
Posts: 7,989
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Quote:
Originally posted by atrlster
Show me where I said Fighter is a pure rock song
You know Fighter is based on heavier rock and that sound is too hard for HAC. Too soft for Rock radio (and Christina being a woman already makes that an issue too) so it falls in between the gaps. Whereas Kelly's singles were more in the middle and fit into HAC.
And I disagree about Beautiful not having impact the way SUBG has had. At the time SUBG definitely had impact, but not as much, and I'm not seeing its long term effects today either as much as Beatiful.
And I've already addressed your last question twice to MissedTheTrain |
You didn't, that's why the question mark is there asking about what your statement was implying.
Okay, fair enough explanation. Granted, it would have to fall into HAC or Pop. It has to go to some radio format and SUBG is a close enough song, despite it being lighter. It's still pop-rock.
Really? Beautiful's main impact was its use as the anthem of the LGBT community. It has since seemingly been replaced by Born This Way, Firework, and Same Love.
No, you haven't. That's why we keep asking the question.
Quote:
Originally posted by atrlster
No, REREAD that post. They mentioned The Hot 100 and Pop Radio.
And there is no struggle |
Then what is stopping you from saying it?
Quote:
Originally posted by T.C
So is Michaels 100 million album figure for Thriller, so is Britney supposibly selling 105 million albums. Labels inflate sales or turn them into shipment totals.
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Kelly has had the 12.6 million sales figure for years. It's not that shocking of a concept for Kelly to sell a decent amount of more albums with sales throughout the year, and with Kelly releasing a Greatest Hits since then.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 30,225
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Quote:
Originally posted by atrlster
Show me where I said Fighter is a pure rock song
You know Fighter is based on heavier rock and that sound is too hard for HAC. Too soft for Rock radio (and Christina being a woman already makes that an issue too) so it falls in between the gaps. Whereas Kelly's singles were more in the middle and fit into HAC.
And I disagree about Beautiful not having impact the way SUBG has had. At the time SUBG definitely had impact, but not as much, and I'm not seeing its long term effects today either as much as Beatiful.
And I've already addressed your last question twice to MissedTheTrain |
The year end 2003 HAC charts had 3 Doors Down, Kid Rock, Evanescence (Bring Me To Life is WAY harder than Fighter), Michelle Branch, Matchbox Twenty, Creed, Live, Jimmy Eat World, Liz Phair, Maroon 5, Saliva, Ataris, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Nickelback, and tons more songs that are way harder than Fighter, all charting higher than Fighter (which was at #99) so that argument is invalid.
And you keep saying "But Stripped had more impact", yet you aren't giving any reasons why.
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Member Since: 4/4/2014
Posts: 6,778
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lmao so xtina had "bigger global hits" than kelly yet because of you is the only song from either era to make the ww all time chart. makes sense!
Quote:
Originally posted by atrlster
Stripped definitely had 4 hits and a more moderate fifth hit. The inaccuracy |
when i say HITS i don't mean songs that were popular on TRL but didn't even go top 40 in the US like dirrty. breakaway's first four singles went top 10 and all went at least platinum, stripped only had one top 10 and only one platinum single
Quote:
Originally posted by T.C
It didn't, and it didn't sell 15 million, that's a Britney sized inflated mess |
lmao you seriously think stripped which has sold only 6 million between the US and UK sold more than breakaway which is nearing 8 million between its US and UK sales alone?
all you have to do is look at their certifications and it is obvious which sold more
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strippe...Certifications
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakaw...Certifications
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