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Fan Base: Archived: Stand Your Ground (#4)
Member Since: 9/25/2011
Posts: 12,630
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Quote:
Originally posted by bringhimdowndown
I guess it's time to accept Gaga will never be as popular and acclaimed as she was during TFM. The days are definitely over.  |
It was a high peak + she a had a good run at the top. Time for Katy/Rihanna to take her place.
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Member Since: 3/5/2011
Posts: 15,589
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@Halien4Life HOW is it that Future has 4 of the Top5 songs of the year? U.E.N.O, Tapout, Honest + I Wanna Be With You.... ****, is this the greatest singles run since 'Thriller'?
+ Is Pluto good? I want to dl it but i feel like i'll be disappointed. 
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Member Since: 4/20/2011
Posts: 26,993
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Has there ever been a song that was actually killed because of the 'Holiday freeze'?
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Member Since: 10/9/2011
Posts: 8,131
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hehe @ Gags getting H&M to sell her album but then it won't count towards Billboard 
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Member Since: 10/7/2011
Posts: 20,627
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ARTPOP is discounted on Amazon too? 
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Member Since: 3/3/2011
Posts: 23,567
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The real tragedy is that people are so obsessed with the idea of Gaga being obsessed with the idea of being an artist, that they don't allow themselves to have fun or even understand her having fun.
It seems pretty telling that she would choose Jeff Koons for the ARTPOP cover, since he's not only polarizing but known for kitschy "reproductions of banal objects", his art being more or less the battleground for discourse on what is good art. It's one thing to dislike the music on ARTPOP, and something to which everyone's entitled. But it's another thing entirely to simply dismiss the album as bad art: lazy criticism.
The Drowning In Sound review spends much of its text criticizing Koons and Gaga as artists and the rest dismissing the thematic content of the album as vacuous. It offers descriptions of the technical underpinnings of the music, but doesn't seem to be concerned with offering commentary on them. Instead, we see things like "More substantial sentiments are few and far between. 'My artpop could mean anything,' Gaga theorizes at one point. Well does it mean anything? Does it mean nothing?" These questions aren't so much stupid as they are empty. And maybe they are stupid because Gaga seems to be beating everyone over the head with the answer.
Musically, ARTPOP seems to be a bunch of music Gaga likes and she hopes other people will like. If you (critics, GP, anyone) are so interested in the high art that you believe Gaga claims to be creating, then maybe you should pay attention to what she's throwing in your face. Virtually everything she did to kick off this era, the release of Applause, the Lady Gaga is OVER video, dressing as a Pierrot, contracting Koons to build a cover of her banal self, was a statement on her audience, an audience that she wants appreciation from, but an audience that wants above anything to feel superior to her, to reduce her to a naive and arrogant teenager. Again, Drowned In Sound concedes that the only defence for Koons' bad art is that it "holds a mirror up the superficiality of Western culture". I think Gaga is holding up a mirror to the superficiality of Western culture, but it's not in the way they suspect: sure, it partially reflects society's lame ideas (expectations?) of what art is and should be, but more frighteningly seems to show that people have just generally cultivated an idea of art being beyond the average person, something that by recognizing or submitting to makes you elite. If you're the average person, you believe art is beyond the average "artist". Art isn't something everyone can make, art is a classification that you achieve. To be labeled as "art" is something imposing in itself. And if you're "smarter" than the average person, like this Drowned In Sound reviewer, maybe you see that the title of art isn't imposing in itself, that you may dismiss things as BAD art.
I would say it seems pretentious, that people think they're so intelligent that they not only see Gaga for what she is--an art student--and have the authority to meaningfully dismiss her artwork (or non-artwork) entirely, but it's not. It just seems to me like people are scared of the idea that Gaga might be making art, that she might be making good art. And more than that, it seems that critics, be them of the average or high-brow variety, are so pretentious and so self-entitled that they can't stand to see someone else being pretentious and self-entitled, hate seeing themselves put on blast in the mirror of her album. Can't stand the fact that her album is really just a collection of a bunch of fun, diverse, outlandish pop songs constructed to reflect, dissect, ignore, and parody the critics that try to tear it apart.
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Member Since: 1/19/2012
Posts: 13,768
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Quote:
So what happens now, Gaga? Will you end up repeating the earlier hits to depleting crowds, churning out ever duller, largely neglected records, sitting alone in your spooky mansion, filling it with expensive real-life skellingtons while pickling your liver with absinthe? Will you wind up collaborating with Mrs Nickelback? Why not get out while you can, when you still have something resembling a strange form of dignity? Your options are many. Here are two:
a) Shun the fickle craving to become (and remain) the biggest popstar on the planet. Rise above it to leave Cyrus, Perry, and Minaj fighting among themselves (probably in their bikinis, in a paddling pool full of mud, as the drooling patriarchy looks on, fiddling with themselves). Become an actual artist. Go properly, fully weird. Take a leaf out of the unorthodox ex-popstar book of Scott Walker or David Sylvian. Aspire to grace the cover of The Wire, not Vanity Fair. Aim not for ephemeral pop notoriety but artistic immortality. You might have to execute your entourage and those who misguidingly advise you to refrain from further indulging your penchant for inaccessible free jazz but it’ll be much more fulfilling, I assure you.
b) Become an actual, actual artist. You know, like what Captain Beefheart did.
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SCREAMING like that fat bitch Moo does when she hasn't been milked in a few days! 
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Member Since: 3/15/2013
Posts: 19,723
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Quote:
Originally posted by Flanders
hehe @ Gags getting H&M to sell her album but then it won't count towards Billboard |
She uses all these shady sales tactics and Billboard sees right through her
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 11,174
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If Knee promoted her material half as much as Timberfake or Gaga, her songs would be much bigger hits and no its not me being deluded.
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 8/8/2006
Posts: 42,086
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Quote:
Originally posted by iheartBrit
It was a high peak + she a had a good run at the top. Time for Katy/Rihanna to take her place.
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!!!
No artist can be at the top for more than 2 years. Little monsters should accept this and move on.
________
Will any track from Artpop go top 50?  Adore You was in the top 10 by this time  . Drive #18 and SMS was #30 
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Member Since: 8/23/2011
Posts: 52,519
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yes, accept future hendriXXX as the Mozart of our generation
I don't really care for Honest, but tapout is a major anthem, and the new Miley collabo is genius
& Pluto is GREAT, hook after hook over slick production, I still listen to it. you definitely won't be disappointed, it deserved its acclaim
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Member Since: 4/24/2011
Posts: 17,221
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Quote:
Originally posted by RobynYoBank
The real tragedy is that people are so obsessed with the idea of Gaga being obsessed with the idea of being an artist, that they don't allow themselves to have fun or even understand her having fun.
It seems pretty telling that she would choose Jeff Koons for the ARTPOP cover, since he's not only polarizing but known for kitschy "reproductions of banal objects", his art being more or less the battleground for discourse on what is good art. It's one thing to dislike the music on ARTPOP, and something to which everyone's entitled. But it's another thing entirely to simply dismiss the album as bad art: lazy criticism.
The Drowning In Sound review spends much of its text criticizing Koons and Gaga as artists and the rest dismissing the thematic content of the album as vacuous. It offers descriptions of the technical underpinnings of the music, but doesn't seem to be concerned with offering commentary on them. Instead, we see things like "More substantial sentiments are few and far between. 'My artpop could mean anything,' Gaga theorizes at one point. Well does it mean anything? Does it mean nothing?" These questions aren't so much stupid as they are empty. And maybe they are stupid because Gaga seems to be beating everyone over the head with the answer.
Musically, ARTPOP seems to be a bunch of music Gaga likes and she hopes other people will like. If you (critics, GP, anyone) are so interested in the high art that you believe Gaga claims to be creating, then maybe you should pay attention to what she's throwing in your face. Virtually everything she did to kick off this era, the release of Applause, the Lady Gaga is OVER video, dressing as a Pierrot, contracting Koons to build a cover of her banal self, was a statement on her audience, an audience that she wants appreciation from, but an audience that wants above anything to feel superior to her, to reduce her to a naive and arrogant teenager. Again, Drowned In Sound concedes that the only defence for Koons' bad art is that it "holds a mirror up the superficiality of Western culture". I think Gaga is holding up a mirror to the superficiality of Western culture, but it's not in the way they suspect: sure, it partially reflects society's lame ideas (expectations?) of what art is and should be, but more frighteningly seems to show that people have just generally cultivated an idea of art being beyond the average person, something that by recognizing or submitting to makes you elite. If you're the average person, you believe art is beyond the average "artist". Art isn't something everyone can make, art is a classification that you achieve. To be labeled as "art" is something imposing in itself. And if you're "smarter" than the average person, like this Drowned In Sound reviewer, maybe you see that the title of art isn't imposing in itself, that you may dismiss things as BAD art.
I would say it seems pretentious, that people think they're so intelligent that they not only see Gaga for what she is--an art student--and have the authority to meaningfully dismiss her artwork (or non-artwork) entirely, but it's not. It just seems to me like people are scared of the idea that Gaga might be making art, that she might be making good art. And more than that, it seems that critics, be them of the average or high-brow variety, are so pretentious and so self-entitled that they can't stand to see someone else being pretentious and self-entitled, hate seeing themselves put on blast in the mirror of her album. Can't stand the fact that her album is really just a collection of a bunch of fun, diverse, outlandish pop songs constructed to reflect, dissect, ignore, and parody the critics that try to tear it apart.
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Looks like we got a new Monroe!
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Member Since: 3/30/2009
Posts: 79,408
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Quote:
Originally posted by youkneekorn
If Knee promoted her material half as much as Timberfake or Gaga, her songs would be much bigger hits and no its not me being deluded.
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Britney promoting isn't a good thing.
And Justin has done little promo this year. 
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Member Since: 10/1/2011
Posts: 53,790
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Tapout never does get old actually 
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Member Since: 8/16/2010
Posts: 15,137
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My summer prediction for ARTPOP was 325-375k. I'm thinking the final result will be lower than the low end of that, honestly.
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Member Since: 3/15/2013
Posts: 19,723
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Quote:
Originally posted by youkneekorn
If Knee promoted her material half as much as Timberfake or Gaga, her songs would be much bigger hits and no its not me being deluded.
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That goes for Rihanna too.
If she actually tried, both Talk That Talk and Unapologetic couldve sold north of 5 million
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 8/8/2006
Posts: 42,086
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I haven't read all the reviews but I hope they trashed Swine. I hope she never makes a song like that in her life 
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Member Since: 1/19/2012
Posts: 13,768
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UA could have sold 5 million if she tried and TTT 4 million if she put down the coke and promoted
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Member Since: 9/3/2011
Posts: 14,867
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The NERVE of Deadney stans to come for Gaga when Brokeknee's lead single has been a huge flop, and the follow-up "smashes" Perfume and Passenger (how fitting) are not registering anywhere.
"But Britney has fifteen years in teh industry!"
How many under her own free will? That (conservator)ship has sailed. Rih, Bey and Madge stans are welcome to drag Gaga to the pits of hell.
Britney lacks the ***-guzzling skills of Katy Perry to even be top three on Dr. Luke's roster, and Deadknee stans are trying it? 
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 8/8/2006
Posts: 42,086
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STans are a mess for making graphs and all 
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