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News: Racism and the Gay Scene
Member Since: 6/20/2011
Posts: 6,575
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FULL ARTICLE:
Racism and the gay scene
Quote:
"I actually feel physically sick at the sight of too much black flesh” - white gay man aged 27 from London.
Over 850 Black, white, Asian, South Asian, Arab and mixed race gay men shared their thoughts on race and racism with FS. More than two-thirds of the men from the Black, Asian and other minority ethnic backgrounds had personally experienced racism on the scene. Stuart Haggas reports on the results...
In the FS ‘Racism on the scene survey’:
80% of Black guys,
79% of Asian guys,
75% of South Asian guys,
64% of mixed race guys
and most of the Arab guys who responded said they’ve personally experienced racism on Britain’s gay scene.
[...]
Of all the racial groups, it was only among the Latin guys that a minority (35%) had not personally experienced racism.
About 63% of Black and South Asian men said that racism is a bigger issue for them than homophobia.
Peter is a 23-year old Black man from Leeds. He lists some of the things that white men have said to him on the scene. “Does monkey want a banana? I love ****** ****. Show me your gun. Want some fried chicken or watermelon? Cheeky chimp, c’mon I’m not the police you know! And many, many more,” he says. “I could sit here all day and tell you about them. Drag queens and their comments – there is a line, and every time I pass a drag queen who is MCing/DJing, I think to myself ‘please don’t make a racist comment…’”
“White guys will generally only talk to a Black guy in a bar because that’s their sexual preference,” says Carl, 47, from London, “otherwise they will ignore you.”
“I seem to be the last person to get served in a gay bar,” says Sean, 27 from London.
"The only approach I’ve had at a gay bar was when I was asked if I supplied drugs,” adds Wayne, 47 from London. “Terrible behaviour that was not only insulting, but humiliating, since I thought the approach made was due to a romantic intent.
“I am a proud and open Black gay man,” says Vernal Scott, author and diversity consultant working with Naz, who provide sexual health and HIV support for London’s Black and minority ethnic communities. “I am therefore a ‘double minority’, if you like. I experience crap from both angles. I can’t say one hurts less than the other if you find yourself racially profiled on one hand, and then made to feel like an outcast in a gay club – or trying to get into one! But life must go on. We have to learn to feel good about ourselves on the inside, despite external challenges. We have no choice but to stand on our own two feet.”
[...]
OTHER SHADES OF RACISM
It’s a similar story from Asian and South Asian gay men. Shabbs is a 31-year old South Asian guy from Coventry. “Going to a gay pride event and hearing racist comments from gay men directed towards you makes you feel unwelcome in a community you want to be a part of,” he says. “I’d rather be somewhere that’s homophobic than somewhere that is racist, because I can pretend I’m straight. I can’t pretend to be a different skin colour or race. So racism is a bigger issue for me.”
Mo, 28 from Leeds has been called a ‘Paki’ and a ‘terrorist’ by other gay men. “I think racism is as big a problem as homophobia, and both need to be tackled,” he says. “You would think that the discrimination homosexuals encounter would make them more mindful of their judgements based on race.”
“It’s especially common on gay apps,” says Matt, a 32-year old Asian guy from Bristol. “When I’ve had a profile photo that wasn’t too obvious whether I was white or Asian, I got people chatting with me until the moment they realised I was Asian, then suddenly they either went completely silent or I got told that I’m not their type.”
“I’ve been blocked on apps because I am South East Asian,” says Ari, 39 from London, “or thought of as Muslim, even though I am not a Muslim. I have had abuse sent through messages, saying ‘go back home Paki’ or a question asking if Allah is happy I am on here.”
[...]
“White men will often come up to me and tell me that they like black ****, I’m their fantasy ****, and they have a strong desire to have my big black **** inside them,” says Andrew, 48 from Manchester. “This can be intimidating as they have no idea of the size of my ****. I feel like an object. The other line is they know all about me as their last boyfriend was Black.”
“I don’t know if everyone goes through this, but at one point I started to feel upset that I was not born white, just so other gay men could approach me without the same ‘I wonder if he’s…’ look on their face,” adds Sean.
[...]
“Asian men are always assumed to be rent boys or gold diggers,” says Zan, 38 from Nottingham. “And usually presumed to have a small penis and therefore treated as a bottom.”
“It seems that the older the Caucasian man, the higher the propensity for them to pursue Asian men,” says Michael, 43 from London. “Bizarre, but that is my observation.”
“The stereotypes held for Asians are the same for South East Asians,” adds Ari. “Some older white males think that as they are showing us attention, then I should be grateful. Some younger white males think that I am a submissive bottom and my **** is small. I am neither of those, and hate having to put up with this level of ignorance. People think by saying this type of nonsense they are being honest, but it just shows how rude and inappropriate they are.”
[...]
For some Black men, it’s not the racist words but the objectification that is most demoralising. In fact, 82% of Black men who completed FS’s survey said they personally feel sexualised or objectified by white men on the gay scene.
I was sleeping with someone just this week, who on the date was perfectly normal,” Martin says, “but then as we lay together came out with phrases like ‘my little Black boy, I love the taste of your Black skin’, ‘yes my little ******, suck this white daddy’ and tried to ‘compliment’ me by saying I wasn’t Grace Jones black, I was ‘mulatto’.
“Sometimes it is very clear that some guys just want to have sex with you for the experience of sleeping with a Black man,” explains Mickel, 30 from Birmingham, “and a lot of the time you just become a fetish to white men. They have no intention of going out with you, they just want you for sex.”
[...]
“Usually I feel sexualised and objectified by older white men. I think some see me as an easy target for a quick shag,” says Shabbs. “I’ve noticed this since I was 19. When you’re young it feels flattering, but as I’ve gotten wiser you see how they prey on the vulnerabilities we have in our South Asian culture. Many of us are unable to come out to families and have to be discreet about our sexuality. Sometimes you feel like a fetish, a curio object. Often I get messages like ‘I’ve never been with an Indian guy before’. I’d rather be seen as an individual than lumped into a single colour-defining category. But then again, if they’re hot… yeah, I can be just as shallow!”
[...]
Do these racist actions and attitudes affect the mental and sexual health of Black, Asian and other gay men from ethic minorities?
“There are significantly higher rates of suicide, self-harm and mental ill health among Black gay and bisexual men,” GMFA’s Matthew Hodson acknowledges. “Of course you can’t just say this is purely the result of sexual stereotyping or experiencing racism on the gay scene, but it is clear that there is a major health challenge here which needs to be addressed. We also see higher rates of HIV among Black gay and bisexual men, despite data which suggests that there isn’t much difference in risk behaviour or HIV knowledge between Black gay men and white gay men.”
[...]
COLOUR SCALE
FS asked everyone who completed the survey to rate different ethnic groups in terms of attractiveness. ‘White’ came out top with everyone except with Black and mixed race guys, who rated ‘mixed race’ first and ‘white’ second. ‘Mixed race’ came second overall, followed by ‘Latin’, ‘Arab’, ‘Black’, ‘South Asian’ then ‘Asian’.
[...]
WHITE VISIBILITY
“White guys have greater visibility in the media and their attributes, success and sex appeal is much more in our faces,” says Vernal Scott. “Frankly, it is still rare to see ethnic gay men in the media, and you never hear about our successes outside of music and the arts.”
“It’s likely that the surrounding culture has an influence on what people find attractive,” agrees GMFA’s Matthew Hodson. “If all we see on the covers of magazines, in movies and adverts is just a very specific set of physical types, it’s not surprising that we take this on board in some way. Just do an image search for ‘hot gay men’ – you’ll need to scroll down some way before you come across anyone who isn’t white, even further to find an image of someone Asian. It’s not necessarily the case that the same race-based preferences will be reflected in other cultures.”
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 22,126
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No queens meaning drag queens? 
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 57,339
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lućifer
No queens meaning drag queens? |
As in more "feminine" gays, probably.
This was a really interesting read. Racism within the gay community is addressed nowhere near enough.
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 22,126
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Quote:
Originally posted by conatus
As in more "feminine" gays, probably.
This was a really interesting read. Racism within the gay community is addressed nowhere near enough.
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thanks i had ruled it out coz it said no femmes
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 57,339
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lućifer
thanks i had ruled it out coz it said no femmes |
Hm, maybe it could be referring to drag queens then! I know some gay men will rule out dating someone for doing drag.
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 9/14/2010
Posts: 78,921
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Racism exists in all communities. Centering this topic, primarily at homosexuals, only further creates drama, especially on a forum with the majority being LGBT members. I'd consider speaking on this subject if it didn't feel like an outright attack on a group of people to brand them as racists rather than an issue that exists among few people in a group of many. It's try hard.
It doesn't stop here, there's plenty of threads on this subject and so few times have I experienced it in real life, as will many others agree with me. It's not that the issue isn't important, but including all members of LGBT in the matter as if every one of us is a shallow minded, ignorant racist is beyond offensive. Hate is the root of all evil. Give and you shall receive. 
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Banned
Member Since: 9/12/2011
Posts: 9,897
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There's as much racism in Gay community as there's homophobia in Black community. Take that as you will. 
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Member Since: 6/20/2011
Posts: 6,575
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Quote:
Originally posted by J a y
Racism exists in all communities. Centering this topic, primarily at homosexuals, only further creates drama, especially on a forum with the majority being LGBT members. I'd consider speaking on this subject if it didn't feel like an outright attack on a group of people to brand them as racists rather than an issue that exists among few people in a group of many. It's try hard.
It doesn't stop here, there's plenty of threads on this subject and so few times have I experienced it in real life, as will many others agree with me. It's not that the issue isn't important, but including all members of LGBT in the matter as if every one of us is a shallow minded, ignorant racist is beyond offensive. Hate is the route of all evil. Give and you shall receive. |
Racism within the LGBT community should be centred on because the symptoms are different to racism experienced from heteresexual people/systems - as clearly shown in the quotes (from, real living men) above.
ALSO, the LGBT loves to present itself as an all-loving, tolerant group, but it's actually one of the most judgemental and elitist.
A lot of the racism in the LGBT community comes from horrible sexual stereotypes and the ignorance surrounding those.
They are many going around avoiding/seeking certain racial groups SOLELY based on these stereotypes and NOTHING else - they disconnect or 'block' that person out of their life/friendship/dating circle once they realise they don't adhere to that stereotype (that's if they've given them a chance in the first place)
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Member Since: 6/20/2011
Posts: 6,575
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Quote:
Originally posted by Opacho
There's as much racism in Gay community as there's homophobia in Black community. Take that as you will. |
THIS.
But discrimination in black communities is discussed in the media so much more. Black people are so homophobic but DARE YOU SAY gay people are racist. Because they are like SO NOT. It's just their preference (to be repulsed by anything darker than Snow White). Which they can't help.
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Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 40,566
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This article made me so sad...
These poor gay moC... they don't deserve this abuse
I wish I could hug every single one of them
Racism is such a stupid concept... when you realise people from hot climates tend to have dark skin to protect them from the sun and because of that, people label them as inferior.
It's actually stupid.
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Member Since: 4/4/2014
Posts: 8,883
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I'm so tired of this mess, it's ****ing 2016, get educated and stop being racist.
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Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 40,566
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Quote:
Originally posted by JonathanLGardner
THIS.
But discrimination in black communities is discussed in the media so much more. Black people are so homophobic but DARE YOU SAY gay people are racist. Because they are like SO NOT. It's just their preference (to be repulsed by anything darker than Snow White). Which they can't help.
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TBH ATRL has taught me so much about the gay community. I had no idea about the racism in the LGBT community.. I never really thought of it. And it saddens me most when minorities are hateful to minorities -- you should know how discrimination feels. But of course, people are quick to label the entire black community as homophobic
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Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 21,558
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Quote:
Originally posted by conatus
This was a really interesting read. Racism within the gay community is addressed nowhere near enough.
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What? I'm seeing articles about it every single day of my life
Not saying that's a bad thing ofc, but how many times I've seen 'why 'no asian no blacks etc' is racism and not preference' is uncountable
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Member Since: 3/2/2014
Posts: 5,993
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Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 40,566
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Sorry but the
 are people actually this stupid
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 22,126
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Quote:
Originally posted by B'Day
Sorry but the
are people actually stupid |
i think cos in some place people associate asian = east asian
whereas some places asian = south asian
but yeah thats stupid 
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 57,339
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cain
What? I'm seeing articles about it every single day of my life
Not saying that's a bad thing ofc, but how many times I've seen 'why 'no asian no blacks etc is racism and not preference'' is uncountable
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I meant on a grand scale in the mainstream, not just in these articles. I can still open Grindr and find a profile almost instantly that masks its racism under the guise of a preference. I can go out to gay clubs with non-white friends, and white guys will be rude to them, or treat them a certain way. I've heard countless stories from my non-white gay friends and non-white guys I've dated about their experiences of being fetishised or ostracised by other members of the community purely because of their race.
I think it can be somewhat more damaging than some other forms of racism because the LGBT community is meant to presented as this accepting, welcoming community, and it really... Isn't. But I'm white so I may be wrong.
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Member Since: 8/3/2010
Posts: 71,871
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fisjdkdkwofkwkek what is that
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Member Since: 6/20/2011
Posts: 6,575
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Quote:
Originally posted by conatus
I meant on a grand scale in the mainstream, not just in these articles. I can still open Grindr and find a profile almost instantly that masks its racism under the guise of a preference. I can go out to gay clubs with non-white friends, and white guys will be rude to them, or treat them a certain way. I've heard countless stories from my non-white gay friends and non-white guys I've dated about their experiences of being fetishised or ostracised by other members of the community purely because of their race.
I think it can be somewhat more damaging than some other forms of racism because the LGBT community is meant to presented as this accepting, welcoming community, and it really... Isn't. But I'm white so I may be wrong.
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No, you are SPOT ON, sis.
Thanks
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Member Since: 8/7/2015
Posts: 9,420
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Racism still exists everywhere, not just the gay community. But yeah, I would've thought gays wouldn't be so discriminating when they're being discriminated themselves all the time.
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