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Discussion: Why do Muslims have issues assimilating in Europe?
Member Since: 5/18/2012
Posts: 20,576
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Why do Muslims have issues assimilating in Europe?
With the huge influx of migrants into Europe, there's a major failure to adapt those people into the country. I read somewhere that immigrants tend to be pushed into ghettos, making assimilation hard. Immigrants in the US tend to become highly educated, and wealthier by the second generation. For example Asian, African, and Muslim immigrants tend to do really well in the US.
Many people say the American Dream is dead. But why do immigrants do so well in the US than in Europe? The US doesn't have free education, has lower wages than many European countries, smaller social nets, and so on. You would think that with the strong liberal edge of Europe, immigrants would get better education (they don't), move up the social latter (they don't in comparison to American immigrants), and assimilate into society (they don't as easily).
Immigrants tend to go from lower class to middle or upper class in one generation in the US, but in Europe they tend to move slower or not at all.
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 1/3/2014
Posts: 11,976
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I can't say why. As in, I don't know.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 30,642
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Then again the vast majority are very well integrated.
I mean aren't there like millions of muslims in europe? If they were as poorly integrated as some claim wouldn't europe be in an even bigger pit hole?
I also believe there are way more muslims in higher political positions in Europe then there are in the US or Canada for example.
I mean the UK just had it's first muslim mayor, France has countless north african politicians of muslims background etc...
I could be wrong though so I'd love to read more posts and opinion on this matter as it fascinates me.
Also great OP Tropez 
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 3,383
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Europe is very ethnocentric and prefers assimilation
Immigrants typically don't want to
Muslims also typically have a strong sense of nationalism due to the resentment that Christian culture has created throughout time
Therefore, you get conflict between someone wanting to retain their culture and the cultural norms of the majority conflicting with the new influx of immigrants with a similar culture
As I said earlier, in the 1970s when France let a huge influx of Muslim immigrants in with poor papers and failed to properly check many, they allowed an influx of troublesome individuals along with normal Muslims who aggregated together and spread to other parts of Europe
It works like that in the USA too
Immigrants go to where there is a large influx of their own people (i.e. Chinatown, Serbs in Chicago, Italians in NY, etc)
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 1,718
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The title says "muslims", the post is about immigrants. Click bait.
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 993
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Why do Muslims have issues assimilating in ANY NON-MUSLIM COUNTRY?
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Member Since: 12/4/2009
Posts: 6,471
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Care to support this with receipts/statistics?
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Member Since: 5/18/2012
Posts: 20,576
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Quote:
Originally posted by IBeMe
Then again the vast majority are very well integrated.
I mean aren't there like millions of muslims in europe? If they were as poorly integrated as some claim wouldn't europe be in an even bigger pit hole?
I also believe there are way more muslims in higher political positions in Europe then there are in the US or Canada for example.
I mean the UK just had it's first muslim mayor, France has countless north african politicians of muslims background etc...
I could be wrong though so I'd love to read more posts and opinion on this matter as it fascinates me.
Also great OP Tropez 
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I just found this http://www.ibtimes.com/why-do-americ...rparts-2189449
Muslim Americans tend to not be ghettoized like in Europe, are more educated, believe in the American work ethic, and might be more Westernized than their European counter parts.
This is something I don't understand. Because again, I'm going back to the system. Europe is more liberal than the US. So why isn't this liberalism stopping at immigrants, and Muslims in particular?
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 3,383
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Quote:
Originally posted by HeWolf
Why do Muslims have issues assimilating in ANY NON-MUSLIM COUNTRY?
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vrx.
Europe is very ethnocentric and prefers assimilation
Immigrants typically don't want to
Muslims also typically have a strong sense of nationalism due to the resentment that Christian culture has created throughout time
Therefore, you get conflict between someone wanting to retain their culture and the cultural norms of the majority conflicting with the new influx of immigrants with a similar culture
As I said earlier, in the 1970s when France let a huge influx of Muslim immigrants in with poor papers and failed to properly check many, they allowed an influx of troublesome individuals along with normal Muslims who aggregated together and spread to other parts of Europe
It works like that in the USA too
Immigrants go to where there is a large influx of their own people (i.e. Chinatown, Serbs in Chicago, Italians in NY, etc)
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If you read my post...
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 15,535
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Because the US is better than Europe
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Member Since: 5/18/2012
Posts: 20,576
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Member Since: 11/28/2011
Posts: 27,495
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Because often times they are not pressured to. Also their culture is too disparate, they would have to change everything they thought was right and real.
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 3,383
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Also, many Muslims still do not like Europeans for the fact that they were used for cheap labour and are deemed lower than the average European, fought them in the crusades, and have been fighting to keep them out of Europe.
Resentment rises and families teach their children to hate
In the USA, there isn't really too much history other than recent developments
The Muslim world and Europe literally have a history that is over 5 times as long as the US has been a country
Why is this hard for some of you to comprehend
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Member Since: 5/18/2012
Posts: 20,576
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Quote:
Originally posted by Javan
Because often times they are not pressured to. Also their culture is too disparate, they would have to change everything they thought was right and real.
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What do you mean? You aren't pressured to be more American. The US stopped doing that around the 50s. Doesn't Europe try a bit harder to make the people more European. Like in France, where there's more pressure to be more French.
Also, in a linked article here. It was mentioned that Muslims in Europe tend to be from a majority area. Like South Asians for the UK, North Africa for France, and so on. While in the US there's no majority, and they disperse into other groups.
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Member Since: 1/4/2014
Posts: 8,187
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vrx.
Also, many Muslims still do not like Europeans for the fact that they were used for cheap labour and are deemed lower than the average European, fought them in the crusades, and have been fighting to keep them out of Europe.
Resentment rises and families teach their children to hate
In the USA, there isn't really too much history other than recent developments
The Muslim world and Europe literally have a history that is over 5 times as long as the US has been a country
Why is this hard for some of you to comprehend
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that so weird.
why move to a place that you hate and have had historical conflict with?
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Member Since: 5/18/2012
Posts: 20,576
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vrx.
Also, many Muslims still do not like Europeans for the fact that they were used for cheap labour and are deemed lower than the average European, fought them in the crusades, and have been fighting to keep them out of Europe.
Resentment rises and families teach their children to hate
In the USA, there isn't really too much history other than recent developments
The Muslim world and Europe literally have a history that is over 5 times as long as the US has been a country
Why is this hard for some of you to comprehend
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So why do they willingly come to Europe if they hate it so much? And this makes no sense. As the US is more hated in those regions by a large margin, and everything is recent. The Crusades were over 800 years ago. The US invasions in the Middle East happened in the last 60 years. People were born into US involvement, and distrust for American Imperialism.
Sorry, but your argument seems baseless.
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 1,718
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tropez
So why do they willingly come to Europe if they hate it so much? And this makes no sense. As the US is more hated in those regions by a large margin, and everything is recent. The Crusades were over 800 years ago. The US invasions in the Middle East happened in the last 60 years. People were born into US involvement, and distrust for American Imperialism.
Sorry, but your argument seems baseless.
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Probably because the country they are fleeing is being blown to bits. It's common that people assume immigrants move because they want to, you know because they hate their country? Actually it's more they have to, to survive. It's that privilege of living in a country where you can walk outside and are not controlled by militants, you assume that the immigrants move here because they just want to steal your jobs and YOLO.
I do agree that SOME modern immigrants will hold a grudge - especially in the UK, with the government. I knew an Iraqi man who hated Tony Blair with a vengeance because of the whole "War on Terror" which ruined his once-perfect life, back home.
But a lot of African-Americans still hold bad feelings to White-America, so yeah, it ain't going away.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 30,642
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tropez
I just found this http://www.ibtimes.com/why-do-americ...rparts-2189449
Muslim Americans tend to not be ghettoized like in Europe, are more educated, believe in the American work ethic, and might be more Westernized than their European counter parts.
This is something I don't understand. Because again, I'm going back to the system. Europe is more liberal than the US. So why isn't this liberalism stopping at immigrants, and Muslims in particular?
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These are actually really interesting points tbh. Idk why it seems to be more difficult.
Perhaps europe is more ethno centric? i'm not too sure.
I mean in the US everyone sort of knows that they are immigrants. Even caucasians know it deep down inside so it is easier to integrate since everyone sort of shares a common "status". Where as in europe the caucasian ppl are actually natives of the continent so there is a sense of entitlement, separation and isolation between the caucasians and others races of the continent which creates ghettos since muslims, black ppl etc... stick together because they do not feel like they belong with the whites of the european continent, consequently this isolation of the races & religions creates differing values which clash...and so we have a lack of integration.
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Member Since: 8/31/2012
Posts: 13,110
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If you compare them to the U.S., part of the difference is economic. Muslims who come to the U.S., by sheer logic of the costs involved, are wealthier and more educated. Muslim countries border the EU, and stepping across the border is about as easy as stepping across the border between Mexico and the United States. So, because of self selection in the case of the U.S., and less self-selection for Europe, you get a very very wide gap in terms of the types of Muslims you can expect to form the norm in the U.S. vs the norm in Europe
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 3,383
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheLuckyOnes
that so weird.
why move to a place that you hate and have had historical conflict with?
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It's close
Uprooting your family for a train or boat ride is cheaper and shorter than uprooting your family, selling your possessing, and moving across an ocean
There is simply more economic opportunity in Europe than the Middle East
In addition, areas like Germany has tons of Turkish Muslims who have assimilated
@ Tropez - No, your argument is baseless. The fact is many Muslims came to Europe in the 1970s as cheap labor. Nowadays, Muslims struggle to find jobs and are ostracized.
Sources: http://www.ibtimes.com/muslim-job-di...se-who-2134792
http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/24/world/...iscrimination/
People stick with what they are familiar with
It's difficult for you to comprehend unless you have actually lived in Europe
Why be the people who hate you? Would you be homophobic if you were gay? Would you change your entire lifestyle for it?
Even in the USA, they do not assimilate as much as you think. In Tampa, large sprawls of Arab communities are appearing. It won't be long until you notice it though
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