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News: Greece Approves Anti-Racism/Hate Crime Law; GoldenDawn Fumes
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 14,321
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Greece Approves Anti-Racism/Hate Crime Law; GoldenDawn Fumes
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Greek lawmakers on Tuesday passed a bill toughening anti-racism laws and making Holocaust denial a criminal act, as it cracks down on a wave of xenophobic attacks that have come amid the country's worst-ever peace-time financial crisis.
Hate crimes have surged alongside the rise of the fiercely anti-immigrant Golden Dawn party, whose top members are in jail pending trial on charges of setting up a criminal group that attacks immigrants and opponents. They deny the accusations.
"Reinforcing our legislative arsenal is demanded more than ever today, when the enemies of democracy and those who deny the human substance preach hatred," Justice Minister Haralambos Athanassiou told parliament last week.
The bill raises the prison term for instigating hate crimes to three years from two and allows prosecutors to investigate crimes even if the victims fail to report them to authorities.
It also imposes fines of up to 30,000 euros for those instigating racism and up to 100,000 euros for groups involved in racially motivated crimes, in addition to banning them from receiving state funding for up to six months.
A controversial article criminalizing the denial or trivialization of the Holocaust, Nazi war atrocities and genocide, was voted for by 54 of the 99 lawmakers present during the summer session.
The government had rejected a proposed amendment that would have legally recognized gay and lesbian couples, citing the need for study of tax and religious issues, despite a 2013 EU court ruling that it was violating EU rules by not doing so.
Rights groups like Human Rights Watch that have long criticized Greece for turning a blind eye to racism welcomed the latest changes.
"Greece is waking up to the fact that there is a serious problem with racist violence," Human Rights Watch said in a recent report.
Golden Dawn, which features a swastika-like emblem and has referred to immigrants as "subhumans", said the new rules violated freedom of expression.
"What is xenophobia? The railings at my home stopping a Pakistani, or any foreigner, from raping my wife or killing me?" Golden Dawn lawmaker Michail Arvanitis told parliament. "Discrimination is a fact of life." ![Bibliotheque](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/korn0818/ATRL_Smilies_All/atrlers/biblio_zps23dff242.gif)
Golden Dawn's leader, Nikos Michaloliakos, has denied the Holocaust, and the party's members have been seen giving Nazi salutes. Michaloliakos has held in pre-trial detention after a party supporter killed a anti-fascist rapper a year ago.
An investigation into Golden Dawn's links to a string of violent attacks, including the killing of the rapper and a Pakistani immigrant, has entered its final stage. A trial of more than 70 suspects, including Golden Dawn's 16 lawmakers, is expected to begin in November. The new laws cannot be applied to those on trial.
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http://www.vagazette.com/news/sns-rt...,4189667.story
Mostly good news: this also protects LGBT.
Only bad news is that in the beginning civil partnerships were included in the bill because the European Court Of Human Rights told Greece couples were entitled to them, but that provision was dropped. Now 162! couples will sue the country again for inaction ![cool](http://www.atrl.net/forums/images/smilies/images/smilies/cool.gif)
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 5/2/2010
Posts: 6,088
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He isn't wrong, discrimination is a fact of life, it's wrong but to deny that it exists, is stupid and we must work towards eradicating it.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 14,321
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Quote:
Originally posted by KingOfTheCastle
He isn't wrong, discrimination is a fact of life, it's wrong but to deny that it exists, is stupid and we must work towards eradicating it.
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I think he was saying in the context of it's unavoidable so too bad I'm doing it.
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Banned
Member Since: 3/19/2012
Posts: 7,835
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Trivialization of Nazi atrocities is illegal? So "Springtime for Hitler" is verboten? Doesn't sound like free speech to me.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 14,321
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Quote:
Originally posted by Goosey
Trivialization of Nazi atrocities is illegal? So "Springtime for Hitler" is verboten? Doesn't sound like free speech to me.
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It's the law in several European countries, especially the ones that were victims of Hitler.
You can have movies talking about World War II, plays, but to INCITE hatred which is what the majority of this bill is about is a no-no.
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Banned
Member Since: 6/25/2011
Posts: 37,192
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Quote:
Originally posted by Goosey
Trivialization of Nazi atrocities is illegal? So "Springtime for Hitler" is verboten? Doesn't sound like free speech to me.
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The 1st Amendment isn't an international thing, and laws like that regarding Nazism are very prominent throughout Europe.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 14,321
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Banned
Member Since: 3/19/2012
Posts: 7,835
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Quote:
Originally posted by LuLuDrops
It's the law in several European countries, especially the ones that were victims of Hitler. You can have movies talking about World War II, plays, but to INCITE hatred which is what the majority of this bill is about is a no-no.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jameson Teqkilla
The 1st Amendment isn't an international thing, and laws like that regarding Nazism are very prominent throughout Europe.
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Yeah, well, I don't care what they do in Europe, it shouldn't be illegal unless they're actually inciting people to violence. If they're just some white trash Neo-Nazis they should be allowed to express themselves... it's not "freedom of speech" if hateful and offensive speech isn't protected, I agree with America's position here: "As a nation we have chosen a different course -- to protect even hurtful speech on public issues to ensure that we do not stifle public debate."
Anyways I thought GoldenDawn was a member ![rip](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/korn0818/ATRLSmilies/rip_zpsec10ede9.gif)
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 14,321
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Quote:
Originally posted by Goosey
Yeah, well, I don't care what they do in Europe, it shouldn't be illegal unless they're actually inciting people to violence. If they're just some white trash Neo-Nazis they should be allowed to express themselves... it's not "freedom of speech" if hateful and offensive speech isn't protected, I agree with America's position here: "As a nation we have chosen a different course -- to protect even hurtful speech on public issues to ensure that we do not stifle public debate."
Anyways I thought GoldenDawn was a member ![rip](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/korn0818/ATRLSmilies/rip_zpsec10ede9.gif)
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This country has some laws against hate speech as well, just not Holocaust denial like the rest mentioned in the thread.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech#United_States
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Member Since: 8/13/2012
Posts: 32,832
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Very good, destroy these lunatics before it's too late ![clap3](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/korn0818/67d90ee8.gif)
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Banned
Member Since: 3/19/2012
Posts: 7,835
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Quote:
Originally posted by LuLuDrops
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Um no they don't, not in the European sense, apples and oranges ![too funny](images/smilies/images/smilies/priceless.gif)
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Banned
Member Since: 6/25/2011
Posts: 37,192
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Quote:
Originally posted by Goosey
Yeah, well, I don't care what they do in Europe, it shouldn't be illegal unless they're actually inciting people to violence. If they're just some white trash Neo-Nazis they should be allowed to express themselves... it's not "freedom of speech" if hateful and offensive speech isn't protected, I agree with America's position here: "As a nation we have chosen a different course -- to protect even hurtful speech on public issues to ensure that we do not stifle public debate."
Anyways I thought GoldenDawn was a member ![rip](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/korn0818/ATRLSmilies/rip_zpsec10ede9.gif)
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Yeah, it's not freedom of speech because those countries don't have the first amendment. Not every country is America.
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Member Since: 2/6/2014
Posts: 294
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Banned
Member Since: 6/25/2011
Posts: 37,192
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Quote:
Originally posted by Goosey
Um no they don't, not in the European sense, apples and oranges ![too funny](images/smilies/images/smilies/priceless.gif)
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But you don't even know how it works in Europe and you clearly didn't read the article he linked you regarding limitations to free speech in America, so how can you possibly make that statement?
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Member Since: 3/14/2013
Posts: 19,483
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jameson Teqkilla
Yeah, it's not freedom of speech because those countries don't have the first amendment. Not every country is America.
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Thank goodness for that. Seems that a fair number of people don't realize that the 1st amendment has a limit to it and it yields consequences regardless of legal recourse.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 14,321
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Quote:
Originally posted by Goosey
Um no they don't, not in the European sense, apples and oranges ![too funny](images/smilies/images/smilies/priceless.gif)
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Read it again, Americans can say what they want, but the exceptions are people inciting violence. This was a big problem in Greece and while the US hasn't passed a law as sweeping as Greece, the main idea is there: you'll get in trouble in both countries if you directly call for violence.
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Banned
Member Since: 3/19/2012
Posts: 7,835
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jameson Teqkilla
But you don't even know how it works in Europe and you clearly didn't read the article he linked you regarding limitations to free speech in America, so how can you possibly make that statement?
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Oh please, you're not allowed to say many things in European countries which are allowed in America. Totally different ballpark! "B-b-but America limits free speech too! They don't let you make bomb threats!"
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Originally posted by Jameson Teqkilla
Yeah, it's not freedom of speech because those countries don't have the first amendment. Not every country is America.
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I'm aware not every country is America
"It's not human rights because not every country is Europe"
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Originally posted by LuLuDrops
Read it again, Americans can say what they want, but the exceptions are people inciting violence. This was a big problem in Greece and while the US hasn't passed a law as sweeping as Greece, the main idea is there: you'll get in trouble for directly calling for violence.
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And a whole bunch of other stuff.
Like the part about Holocaust denial and "trivializing" war crimes. So now you're not allowed to even question historical events? Or make off-colour jokes?
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Member Since: 11/22/2009
Posts: 11,092
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 14,321
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Quote:
Originally posted by Goosey
Oh please, you're not allowed to say many things in European countries which are allowed in America. Totally different ballpark! "B-b-but America limits free speech too! They don't let you make bomb threats!"
I'm aware not every country is America
"It's not human rights because not every country is Europe"
And a whole bunch of other stuff.
Like the part about Holocaust denial and "trivializing" war crimes. So now you're not allowed to even question historical events? Or make off-colour jokes?
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Those other war crimes were things that happened to Greeks, there was a genocide against Greek Christians. They bundled them together.
Let me clarify, difference between US and Greece: In Greece now you can't deny the Holocaust
Similarities: You can't incite violence or you'll be in trouble.
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Banned
Member Since: 6/25/2011
Posts: 37,192
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Quote:
Originally posted by Goosey
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You're missing the point. The concept of unlimited free speech is not considered a right in every single country. Many countries think it is better to protect minority groups from hate speech than to allow every single person to say whatever they want, when they want.
And no, you are not allowed to question whether the Holocaust happened in many countries, Germany included.
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