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Discussion: Beyoncé, Britney and White Guilt
Member Since: 4/28/2011
Posts: 26,425
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Beyoncé, Britney and White Guilt
See, I was having a chit-chat with a few friends (people in the real world) and we got on to the discussion on privilege, and how the framing of Britney and Beyoncé's career's have gone since their debuts in the mid/late 90s.
Beyoncé has, by everyone's initial standards, overachieved. DC was huge admittedly but no-one feasibly saw Beyoncé being the icon that she is now even though she was the overt standout in the group. In the same way, Britney was tipped for superstardom from her days alongside the incredibly talented Christina Aguilera in MMC.
And we all know about Britney's breakdown, bought on by a Princess Diana~lite coverage for years. This admittedly was a major catalyst. However, much of her earlier antics were bascically brushed over and even the trauma she suffered in 2007, that's hardly brought up in reports of her or when she doesn't do "well" by Britney standards.
Yet whenver Beyoncé slips up, like @ the Met Gala or other events, the world is quick to pounce on her in a way not given to anyone else today. Is this a form of casual racism/misogynoir given to Beyoncé, a Black Woman heavily dominating in a field (usually) overrun by White Women? Is there a systemic media bias towards favouring Britney because of her trials and tribulations, since Beyoncé hasn't had it as tough (though partly through her great managemnt).
Interested to hear your thoughts.
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Member Since: 4/28/2011
Posts: 26,425
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thoughts?
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Member Since: 10/10/2011
Posts: 16,324
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Oh most definitely. People definitely give Britney a pass and the way people forget her past indiscretions definitely comes from her skin color (in the same way Sean Penn is now an acclaimed actor/director while Chris Brown will never live down his past of abuse).
I mean can you image the DRAGGINGS if Beyoncé went on TV and performed like Britney does nowadays? Her career would be DUNZO.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 6,625
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I think you make a very clear point and I do very much agree with you.
However this website is a particularly heinous place to have a discussion like this, because the twinks on this website don't understand the concept of privilege or frame themselves as faux-intellectuals who think that because this discussion is about about white privilege that you're a "SJW" or a "tumblr kid".
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Member Since: 7/16/2010
Posts: 43,593
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Britney was the nation's sweetheart falling off her pedestal. She and her team have used the media to build her image and build and maintain popularity. When Britney lost her way, the media still used Britney in the same way as they did before. In a 'for better or for worse" kind of way. Media outlets did everything to see the Nation's sweetheart fall from grace.
Beyoncé mainly has stayed private and only uses media when it comes in handy. It doesn't have 100% to do with race. Matthew in her early career and currently herself observe and act upon that. They know how to life their lives and only use media when it's needed. When Bey 'slips' in whatever way, she just ignores it and then the next big thing happens and people forget about it.
That is also why someone like P!nk is still having a steady career. P!nk also uses media when it comes in handy and keeps her stuff mainly private. You don't see her in the tabloids with crap.
Also why Taylor gets a lot of crap these last months. When you use media to build a big part of your career, it's only a matter of time before it's gonna hunt you back and bite you in the *ss.
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Member Since: 9/1/2013
Posts: 15,765
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Member Since: 8/7/2015
Posts: 7,628
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Yes Britney is priveleged, no it is not her fault. Beyonce overcomes her lack of privelege anyway.
Rihanna performs just as badly as Britney sometimes but she's still successful though, so it's not a one way street.
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Banned
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 24,153
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This isn't even true, though. Beyoncé's team control her image and portrays her as this perfect being, so whenever she does slip up it will be news as it contradicts her media persona. Just like Taylor Swift.
Britney isn't painted the same way because she had a mental illness and suffered from a mental disorder. Not the same to what Beyoncé experiences. Britney was mistreated by the media, so obviously the media is going to lick her arse after the national outcry that came after the 2007 scandal.
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Member Since: 3/25/2012
Posts: 10,673
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shinning
Oh most definitely. People definitely give Britney a pass and the way people forget her past indiscretions definitely comes from her skin color (in the same way Sean Penn is now an acclaimed actor/director while Chris Brown will never live down his past of abuse).
I mean can you image the DRAGGINGS if Beyoncé went on TV and performed like Britney does nowadays? Her career would be DUNZO.
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Agree with all of this. Though I will say that I'm happy the media doesn't jump on Britney anymore. She never deserved it and she seems to be in much better mental state these days.
Hopefully the Taylor backlash is a sign of a shift in the whole "white is always right" narrative.
This conversation will be lost on ATRL though. We will all be called SJWs for "pulling the race card again" because a very loud subsection of tone-deaf gay whites on this site don't want to accept that white privilege is actually a thing, so...
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 32,982
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Beyonce has never faced a tenth of the backlash Britney has.
Beyonce used payola and was never punished for it. She takes unscrupulous writing credits and has never been accosted for it.
The first time she ever really even caused a scene was with Deja Vu, about 9 years in to her career
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Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
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This is a very interesting and astute analysis.
Just look at the way Janet was treated. I doubt a white woman would have gotten that much hate.
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Member Since: 4/28/2011
Posts: 26,425
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Quote:
Originally posted by SpinThatShhh
This isn't even true, though. Beyoncé's team control her image and portrays her as this perfect being, so whenever she does slip up it will be news as it contradicts her media persona. Just like Taylor Swift.
Britney isn't painted the same way because she had a mental illness and suffered from a mental disorder. Not the same to what Beyoncé experiences. Britney was mistreated by the media, so obviously the media is going to lick her arse after the national outcry that came after the 2007 scandal.
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This comes down more to the respectability of Black stars in the public eye, and in any field really. I mean you can take Serena, Lebron, Nicki, Tiger...its like a Black artist has to remain palatable to the White Gaze and of a certain standing otherwise they're trashed in the media, in print, in all forms of discussion. There's no grey area for them (and this even goes back to MLKjr days and the revisionism of his movement but thats for another day).
Point being, Britney has never been "respectable" in the way Beyoncé has had to be, far from it. But she will never be critiqued in the same way even after her 2007 breakdown. One took drugs, the other has never touched it. Yet the latter is under a brighter microscope.
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 1,456
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A question worth pondering but perhaps not the best venue for a truly fruitful discussion
Quote:
Originally posted by BYoncé
However this website is a particularly heinous place to have a discussion like this, because the twinks on this website don't understand the concept of privilege or frame themselves as faux-intellectuals who think that because this discussion is about about white privilege that you're a "SJW" or a "tumblr kid".
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^
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Member Since: 10/10/2011
Posts: 16,324
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Quote:
Originally posted by Eternium
Beyonce has never faced a tenth of the backlash Britney has.
Beyonce used payola and was never punished for it. She takes unscrupulous writing credits and has never been accosted for it.
The first time she ever really even caused a scene was with Deja Vu, about 9 years in to her career
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What punishment do you want? People make "thief" jokes about Beyoncé while Britney ALSO takes writing credits, and has other people sing for her on her albums and other people dance for her in her videos and no one ever says anything because she is coddled by the media. Can you imagine the career-ending backlash Beyoncé would receive if it was exposed she used body doubles to do her choreography in her videos!?
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Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
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It’s also quite racist when people compare Britney and Beyoncé’s dancing and put down Beyoncé’s for being “just booty shaking” when it firstly is not just that and secondly, Beyoncé’s dancing is highly inspired by African dance moves (from Crazy in Love to Baby Boy to Run the World to Deja Vu to End of Time to Formation, etc. basically everything) and that style of dance is heavily hip and butt oriented, so to say that a particular style done by a certain race is not actually dancing and should not be accepted as such is undercover racism.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 32,982
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheVoiceXtina
This comes down more to the respectability of Black stars in the public eye, and in any field really. I mean you can take Serena, Lebron, Nicki, Tiger...its like a Black artist has to remain palatable to the White Gaze and of a certain standing otherwise they're trashed in the media, in print, in all forms of discussion. There's no grey area for them (and this even goes back to MLKjr days and the revisionism of his movement but thats for another day).
Point being, Britney has never been "respectable" in the way Beyoncé has had to be, far from it. But she will never be critiqued in the same way even after her 2007 breakdown. One took drugs, the other has never touched it. Yet the latter is under a brighter microscope.
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We have videos of Beyonce high and one recently went viral (the DC video). She also sings about highs in some of her songs.
This just proves my point. Beyonce literally gets 0 backlash. Granted her PR and legal team would sue if she did (though that's their job), but Beyonce has faced less scrutiny in her career than Taylor Swift, and that's saying something
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 8,743
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Quote:
Originally posted by J-esper
Britney was the nation's sweetheart falling off her pedestal. She and her team have used the media to build her image and build and maintain popularity. When Britney lost her way, the media still used Britney in the same way as they did before. In a 'for better or for worse" kind of way. Media outlets did everything to see the Nation's sweetheart fall from grace.
Beyoncé mainly has stayed private and only uses media when it comes in handy. It doesn't have 100% to do with race. Matthew in her early career and currently herself observe and act upon that. They know how to life their lives and only use media when it's needed. When Bey 'slips' in whatever way, she just ignores it and then the next big thing happens and people forget about it.
That is also why someone like P!nk is still having a steady career. P!nk also uses media when it comes in handy and keeps her stuff mainly private. You don't see her in the tabloids with crap.
Also why Taylor gets a lot of crap these last months. When you use media to build a big part of your career, it's only a matter of time before it's gonna hunt you back and bite you in the *ss.
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Banned
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 24,153
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheVoiceXtina
This comes down more to the respectability of Black stars in the public eye, and in any field really. I mean you can take Serena, Lebron, Nicki, Tiger...its like a Black artist has to remain palatable to the White Gaze and of a certain standing otherwise they're trashed in the media, in print, in all forms of discussion. There's no grey area for them (and this even goes back to MLKjr days and the revisionism of his movement but that's for another day).
Point being, Britney has never been "respectable" in the way Beyoncé has had to be, far from it. But she will never be critiqued in the same way even after her 2007 breakdown. One took drugs, the other has never touched it. Yet the latter is under a brighter microscope.
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I'm not denying that Beyoncé has experienced a form of racism/ being forced to conform for the white gaze. Black females (more so than black men) in the music industry cannot express their blackness until they have appealed to white people.
I think there is a small amount of racism around the discussion of Beyoncé but I feel like her own team has (partially) resulted in this. Building her up to be this perfect being has only magnified her missteps. Since we are aware of Britney's downfalls, it is unexciting and less scandalous. So yes, I guess systemic racism does play a factor into the media presentation of Beyoncé, but who is to blame for that i'm unsure.
Either way though, I don't think Beyoncé has had it half as bad as Britney.
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Member Since: 10/1/2011
Posts: 53,790
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When you're a black woman in this industry, you have to be 100x better than your peers and have a relatively clean and solid image or else you'll be attacked in all directions by the media and public alike.
It's sad, but I'm glad you acknowledge what so many choose to brush over.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 32,982
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shinning
What punishment do you want? People make "thief" jokes about Beyoncé while Britney ALSO takes writing credits, and has other people sing for her on her albums and other people dance for her in her videos and no one ever says anything because she is coddled by the media. Can you imagine the career-ending backlash Beyoncé would receive if it was exposed she used body doubles to do her choreography in her videos!?
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Considering payola is a crime, certain Epic/Colombia execs should have been sent to jail and the artists involved should have had to pay a fine instead of Sony paying a measly $10M and facing 0 consequences.
Britney was rightfully dragged for BJ by everyone including her fans. But Beyonce has literally stolen millions from her collaborators and her fans still adamantly deny it. It's been going on since Rob Fusari exposed her for Bootylicious and her dad stepped in to save her image.
HIAM had a body double because she fought someone and had her face juxtaposed and she wasn't comfortable with being lifted by a crane. TTWE used a blocking shot for a snap. Where are these body doubles doing her dancing?
Beyonce received 0 backlash for stealing footage from a documentary for her latest lead video. I would imagine she'd face no backlash since her PR team would spin it.
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