This thread should be started by someone who ISN'T an irate Lana Del Ray stan, shouldn't it?

Frank Ocean's 2012 is, in some ways, a clear portrait of the bifurcation of musical tastes. As Jonny mentioned, Channel Orange will go down in history as 2012's MOST ACCLAIMED ALBUM (there is no doubt to that), and he reaped six Grammy nominations. But, real talk, R&B radio won't play him.

So, the question is, what measures success? 2009's most acclaimed album was by Animal Collective, a band that, like Frank Ocean, is HUGE in certain circles, but invisible in the mainstream. Are they not successful?

Or is it possible to have very different versions of success?

You're free to discuss if you so choose.

If you've made an impact in the industry and continue to make an impact, that's what I call success. Whether it be in acclaim or sales.

It's funny you say that.

Grimes, an act I have no time for but you seem to like, just made it in the top five of Pitchfork's year-end.

So not all critics are "dumb," huh?

His acclaim is amazing, but his lackluster sales really stick the point that he won't be able to shift albums. How can Lana do it so effortlessly with half of the critical acclaim?

For where R&B sales are atm, its doing great. Still in the top 30 on US iTunes as well and Thinkin Bout You had good success as well.

With the acclaim as well, i'd say for a debut album Frank did well.

That's truly a sad thing to read.

Critical discussion is the lifeblood of art; without it, all art (even top 40) is rendered incomplete. Hopefully you'll have a change of heart!

And, honestly, "critics are dumb" is not really an answer to the (hopefully) thoughtful questions I've laid out. WHY are they "dumb?" Let's have a true discussion.

EXACTLY

Rebecca Black FRIDAY #58 on Billboard
Beyonce LISTEN #61 on Billboard

You see. True talent, and amazing songs always win. Every good album/song out there was recognized by general public/buyers. You see, I'm not kidding.

BLACK FRIDAY is really a better song than LISTEN, and I mean it really is. Look at that LISTEN peak, that song is horrible. That peak confirms that. That song sucks. Because sales and peak confirms that. Song sucks because it has promotion, the critics love it, but it didn't sell well on Billboard, so it's overrated trash. It sucks.

You know what? I was about to praise it because I think Beyonce's voice sounds nice in it, but when I really think better, some may think I'm being pretentious, cool wannabe intellectual. So I'll just keep it this way. Sucks.

Why do y'all keep comparing Frank and Lana?They are 2 completely different artists.

I realize I referenced her fanbase in the first line, but you get how this thread is not about her, right?

Are there certain "signifiers" that alt-leaning critics look for when giving their approval? What do you think?

Because her music is good.

But why is there no impact? It can't be because "the music isn't good," that's entirely subjective. Tons of stuff - the vast majority of it - played on top 40 pop or hip-hop radio is subjectively TERRIBLE.

What is he missing? Lack of hooks, dryness in voice, just a different presence than what is deemed acceptable on R&B radio? Come on guys. I'm not asking for much, just a discussion.